YOP062: After Quitting Your Job with Ellory Wells

By November 3, 2015 Podcast Episode No Comments

Bio: Ellory is a personal business coach who specializes in effective and efficient ways to new get entrepreneurs off the ground. He is the Amazon #1 Best Selling Author of How to Start Your Professional Podcast for $200 or Less.” He has over 15 years of sales experience, and before starting his own business, he spent 4 years as the top sales person in one of the largest IT companies in the world. Ellory shares his knowledge and expertise with the readers on his blog and listeners to his podcast. Please connect with Ellory on Facebook and Twitter.


Zephan: Hey, everyone. This is Zephan Blaxberg with The Year Of Purpose podcast, and today, I’m joined by Ellory. Ellory is a personal business coach, who specialized in effective and efficient ways to get new entrepreneurs off the ground. He is the Amazon #1 bestselling author of How to Start Your Professional Podcast for $200 or Less. He has over fifteen years of sales experience, and before starting his own business, he spent four years as the top salesperson in one of the largest IT companies in the world. Ellory shares his knowledge and experience with the readers on his blog, and listeners to his podcast. Connect with him on Facebook, and on Twitter, and today, right here on The Year Of Purpose. What’s happening?

Ellory: Hey, Zephan. Thanks for having me.

Zephan: Yeah, no problem. You ultimately left the corporate world. It may be in a different fashion than most. Some people get a choice, some people don’t. Just before we hopped on, you were telling me a little bit about how you didn’t exactly have a choice, so maybe we’ll start there, with, what were you doing for work, and how did you ultimately have to get out of it?

Ellory: Sure. That’s a great question. I’m glad you started there, because I feel like there’s so many people who are like “Oh, I had this six-figure job. I was making all this money, and I decided I’m gonna pursue my dreams.” I never quite got to six figures, and I didn’t get to leave there and just make this magical life living on the beach happen overnight. I’m obviously not on the beach anyway. Yeah. I was fired, and before that I was the most … I’ve boxed up the trophies, but I was the most-awarded salesperson in a $2 billion unit, full of one hundred fifty inside sales reps. I was Sales Rep of the Year, Sales Rep of the Quarter. I was one of the few people that got a raise every year; we didn’t get them quarterly, or anything like that, and it was only like 3%. I was one of the only few people who got one of those.

I sold computer servers, software services, pretty much the entire portfolio for Dell to education accounts. Worked with schools and things like that. I loved it, because I got to not only talk about computers, but I got to see the new stuff before it came out, and I’m not a huge fan of the term “nerd,” or “geek,” or whatever, but I love tech toys. I love gadgets, and those kinds of things. I got to not only talk about it, but see what was coming out next. I was successful, but I was kind of average. I wasn’t the born entrepreneur either. I didn’t have the lemonade stand at age four, like some people. I’m not the cliché, typical entrepreneur, had all this success, all this money, and then decided to give it all up to do this.

Hopefully, because of that, and because I’m not that way, I can connect with more people, Zephan, just the average guy looking for something different. There was a long process, long runway, between when I started what I’m doing now, and when I actually left Dell. That runway has definitely helped, and is worth talking about, especially when you’re talking about a year of purpose, three years, two and a half years of purpose, before I made that switch. That’s what I did. I was a IT salesperson, and didn’t wear a suit and tie, wore usually shorts and a polo shirt, because we were casual. That’s me, or at least the corporate part of me.

Zephan: Yeah. Let me ask you real quick, just before moving on from that. What do you think it was that made you such a good salesman? Obviously, those trophies and all those awards don’t just come from being an average Joe who gets a sales job.

Ellory: I think there are a couple of reasons. I’ve been asked this question by some of the account executives and directors, all up and down the corporate ladder there. A couple things. One is, I really liked, at least in the beginning, what I was talking about. Towards the end, it became check the boxes, and all of the admin stuff, and it had very little to do with selling. As the people part became less of an emphasis, my joy also went down. I believed in the product. I still will buy Dell products. I’m on one right here. It’s over here. I believed in the product. I had a passion for it. I was genuinely interested in it, as far as the company side goes. As far as the customer part goes, I built relationships with people. I would be able to recognize their voice when they called on the phone, because it was all over the phone. I didn’t do chat or anything like that.

I made it a goal, and this is something that I talked about on the Sales Evangelist podcast that Donald Kelly does. He asked me a very similar question, and what I told him is what I tell you. I tried to know three things about every single person that I talked to, that really didn’t have a whole lot to do with work, business, or their job. Where they grew up, even something as dumb as the weather, or where their kids lived, or what they were interested in, or just some of their backgrounds and hobbies. I knew one lady was remodeling her bathroom, so we would always talk “Hey, how’s the bathroom remodel going?” “Oh, it’s going well. We decided to do something else.” That was the lead in to the product conversation.

I built relationships with these people, and again, tried to know three things, at least three, about that person, that did not have to do with work. It was a personal call, and I became the guy who lived the town over their son, or their daughter, or it’s raining where they live, and it’s probably raining where Ellory lives. I became that person instead of the sales guy.

Zephan: Got you. I’m sure that probably played out into a lot of things after the fact, especially just with connecting with new clients, and new people that you’re meeting, once you start your own business. Maybe just walk me through. What happens after getting fired? You wake up the next day and what do you with yourself?

Ellory: I was unemployed for the drive home. I immediately got home and I sat down right where I am now, and got to work. Honestly, and maybe this will help someone. Is the audience of your show mostly, are they wanting to be entrepreneurs? Are they wanting to start something? Tell me about them first. Not that I will change my answer, but just something to help them.

Zephan: Yeah. I’d say that they’re definitely a good mix of people who are looking to leave the corporate world for entrepreneurial pursuits. Some of them are already entrepreneurs, and just looking to develop themselves as a person, but yeah.

Ellory: Again, I’m not changing my answer at all. I picked up where I left off, of what I’ve been doing for the last, almost exactly, two years at that point. I got fired on January 17th, 2014. I started my blog on January 30th, 2012. I’d been doing this for two years. Wasn’t making a whole lot of money. Hadn’t generated a whole lot of revenue, but I’d had a couple products. I developed relationships. I’d been blogging regularly. People know who I was, what I stood for, those kinds of things. When I got home, I continued doing those things. I knew I had to make money, because I didn’t want to go back and put all of my eggs in one basket, and go back to work for somebody else immediately again.

To get that first coaching client, for example, I went to the people who had mentioned working with me in the past, over the last six months to a year, and I just said “Hey. I just wanted to follow up on that. I’m no longer at the company, and I’m doubling down. I’m betting on myself. I’m gonna go after this, and I wondered if you’re still interested in working with me. I’ve got some time that I would love to work with you, coach you, have you in a mastermind, whatever it would be.” That’s what I did. That’s how I got my first coaching client. She had reached out to me eight or nine months before. I started writing. I already had a podcast at that point, which, it had only been around three or four months, so twenty or thirty episodes.

I just went to work. I did the thing, that runway that I mentioned before. I just kept going on it, in the same direction that I’d been before, which is why I think it’s so important to start this. You’re talking about having purpose and intention in what you’re doing. Whatever goal it is you want to achieve, you’ve got to start way back, so that you can either get that momentum, or get that runway, that on-ramp, whatever it is, so that you are going to reach your goal. You can’t just start today, thinking “Oh, I’m gonna be successful tomorrow.” You got to start six months ago. It’s like the phrase you’ve probably heard “When is the best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago. When’s the next best time? Today.” It’s the same thing when whatever it is that you want to achieve, it’s that same principal. If you haven’t started yet, the best time is when you’re done listening to this episode, or taking notes, or whatever you’re doing. Start now. That’s what I did.

Zephan: Yeah. Let me ask you this. In building a meaningful life, do you think that it’s possible to still work a job like that sales job? Had you not been let go from that position, do you think that you’d be anywhere remotely close to where you’re at right now?

Ellory: No, because I didn’t think I could do it. I had an opportunity. There was a thing called The Voluntary Separation Program, and it was basically a voluntary layoff. I could’ve taken that. My wife and I talked about it. I didn’t believe that I could succeed. I’ve learned so much since then, that knowing then what I know now would’ve taken it. Can you do this while you’re doing that? I think you have to. Or you could do both if you wanted to, but I guess I discovered my inner entrepreneur, and the two were not compatible for me. For some people, it is, because there’s not a conflict. There’s not a conflict between what you want to do and what you’re currently doing. For me, there was. That’s what you have to do. You have to do them both, before you can do one, or make the transition to full-time. Does that answer your question?

Zephan: Yeah. It makes perfect sense, and looking back at where I was, having left my job in May of 2013, I had already been doing it. I run a video production company full-time, so I had already been doing freelance work on the side for two, maybe three years, before I left that business. It wasn’t anything new to me; it was more of, now it was just taking over my full attention span. I had more time to dedicate to it, and I could put more effort into it, and ultimately have it take over the income that I was bringing in from the job.

Ellory: Yeah. It’s definitely a gradual transition. We would love for it to be light switch, but it’s a gradual transition. Yeah. I’m right there with you.

Zephan: How did you figure out what it was that you were going to do, and how you were going to make money? Some people are sitting here, in a job that has nothing to do with any of their skill sets. Some of them might be thinking “I would love to work for myself, but what I’m doing right now doesn’t really apply in entrepreneurial circumstances.” How do you find out what it is that you can do, and then ultimately leverage that to create a business?

Ellory: I think the only way that you can figure it out—when you work for somebody else—let me even back up one step from there. When we’re starting at age four or five—well, before that—we’re told what to do. “Don’t sit there. Don’t eat that. Don’t kick that. Leave her alone. Stop poking.” Then you go to school and you’re told where to sit, where to go, what to do, and then you go to high school, same thing. Where to do. If you go right into college, like I did, it’s the same thing. Everything is dictated to you by someone else, and then you go to a job and you just “Well, I got a degree in accounting, so I guess I’m gonna go be an accountant.” It’s just that logical step. I don’t want to say it’s predestination from when you’re four years old, but we’re for most of our life, or at least up until you’re twenty-five, you’re told what to do, where to go.

Whenever you’re faced with this opportunity to do whatever you want to do, it’s a little bit scary, and the only way that you can figure it out is by trying things, doing something. What I do now is not what I started off doing almost four years ago, and it’s not really exactly what I did starting 18 months ago-ish, in January of last year. The only way to figure it out is by doing it. For me anyway, and I hope this works and applies to everybody else, but for me, now I get to use all those strengths, through the strengths finder and all those whatever personality tests. All of the things that I thought made me kind of, again, not nerdy… I don’t know the right term there, but I’ve always asked a lot of questions, and I’ve always tried to get to the root of a problem.

My degree is in psychology. I wanted to know why people do things, why they behave the way that they do. In the corporate world, they’re like “Well, why do whatever sales techniques or hardware-wise, and all that?” All those things that people told me “Stop asking questions. Just accept it.” Got to love corporate America, right? All those things that made me quirky growing up and going through college, and in corporate America, are the things now that I leverage as part of my business. I analyze tools, and say. “These are the top ten email resources for you, and here’s why this is the best one.” I research, and I analyze, and I study, and I give people information, which is cool to be paid for what you know, instead of what you can do, or how many widgets you can assemble, or whatever.

I only figured that out by doing a bunch of different things, seeing what helped people the most, what I enjoyed the most. There’s very few things now that I do, that I don’t enjoy. Where my joy was, what I was good at, where those hidden strength, those talents were that I’ve been using all along, and how those three or four things pooled together to where I can have the most impact on people. You only get to that spot by trial and error.

Zephan: Yeah. The key thing is to start, right? If you don’t start, you’re never even going to get the option to transform or change. When I first got started, I think one of the first things I did was I was doing wedding videography, and that’s 100% what I don’t want to do. I know that now, and fortunately, I was able to change the type of clients I was going after, and the people I was working with, and now all my video stuff is usually small businesses and tech startups.

Ellory: You wouldn’t have known that unless you had gone through and just gone and done weddings, and realized you didn’t want to anymore.

Zephan: Right. It took having to deal with brides who were going a little nuts, and some of them were good. Some of them were great. Easy to deal with, no problem. It was the crazy ones that kind of ruined it for everybody, so that’s where—you’re absolutely right. That opportunity wouldn’t have happened unless I took the chance on myself, and started that business. I think that it really does just take getting started, and you do figure out as you go. We come from this world we want someone to just give us the instructions of “What do I have to do? Just give me a step by step” and it doesn’t really work that way.

Ellory: I’m reading a book called The Invisible Selling Machine by Ryan Deiss, who does digital marketer. We got one in our swag bag from Podcast Movement.

Zephan: Yup. Got my copy over there. I actually have two copies. I’ve read it twice.

Ellory: For everybody was watching the video, the cover looks like that. I’m almost done with it, but we’re talking about lead-ins in this chapter, and it’s like “What is the quick fix, that one specific thing that you can give people?” It’s not in a weird way or a negative way. There are quick tips that you or I could give, that would move the needle for somebody. There’s nothing wrong with that. We have become this quick fix society. Maybe that’s too much. Maybe I should say our first inclination is to not think, hustle first, put in the work for a year, and see what happens. It’s, what is that quick fix that can get me to that next level today, immediately? That’s what he’s talking about with these lead magnets, and what I think you are saying is basically the same thing, that is from my experience. There are no quick fixes. It takes putting in the work.

Zephan: Yeah. There won’t be a magic wand. As you’ve gotten into your business, you’ve probably experienced a lot of similar things that I have. I hired a coach, which made a huge difference in my business the first year out.

Wow, it just got really dark here. The sun must’ve gone behind a cloud.

I hired a coach, I joined a mastermind. I’m still in a mastermind. It’s not the same one that I was in from the start, but I have a meeting every single month with the same people, and we get together and talk about our businesses. What are some of the tools and things that you’ve been using that have allowed you to build your business and grow it even higher?

Ellory: Tools that I use… Honestly, I think the master—I also host Paid Mastermind, so I may be biased towards the mastermind, but that wasn’t where I started. I’ve been meeting with a group of guys almost every week since a couple months after New Media Expo in 2014, which was two weeks before I got fired. The highest point, the coolest experience, two weeks right before “We don’t want you here anymore.” I’ve been meeting with them almost every week for right about eighteen months, and being around people who you can share your dreams with, and they won’t look at you like you’re crazy or stupid, that has more value than most people would whatever know. There’s a truth that’s out there, that people who aren’t doing what you and I are doing, Zephan, they don’t see the truth in it. That’s the fact. We are the average of the five people we spend the most time with.

That could be, if you hang around with skinny, healthy people who run marathons, there’s a good chance you’re a skinny person who runs marathons. If you’re a super liberal, or super conservative politically, you’re probably right in the middle of either one of those groups, and the same thing applies to starting your own business. I would attribute a lot of the success that I’ve seen personally, and I can see the results of my clients who go through the same thing, where being able to talk about what you want to achieve, and getting encouragement, support. Also, the accountability, and being able to say “Hey. I just designed this landing page. Is it effective? Are there spelling errors? Does it work? Does it make sense?” Just being able to test your ideas and have a group of people you can use as a sounding board. There’s a lot of value there. I would say that’s been a key ingredient to the success that I’ve been able to have, and the friends that I’ve been able to make. If I wasn’t that one, I wouldn’t be leading them now.

Zephan: Yeah. I would say, on top of being a good sounding board, they’re also a group of people that are going to cheer you on. Sometimes entrepreneurship can be relatively lonely, because it’s a very challenging thing to take on. You can at least have those people to celebrate your big wins with.

Ellory: Absolutely. I would not be able to claim bestselling Amazon, bestselling author of How to Start Your Professional Podcast for $200 or Less, had it not been for my mastermind group. A friend of mine, Jimmy Berg, just joined our group. He does www.bemoreuniversity.com. He teaches people tactics for marketing books, and those kinds of things. Had it not been for him, in my mastermind, I would not be able claim that, and I don’t know what maybe has become a direct result of that, but if there was the domino effect, it would’ve started with that. That happened three or four months after I left Dell.

Zephan: It’s amazing to see what happens, once you open yourself up to the possibilities.

Ellory: Yeah. There’s a certain thing about being in the right place at the right time, and nobody’s going to come to either one of us, or anyone listening to this episode, or watching it. No one’s going to come to you and say “Hey. I can tell you’ve been working hard, and I just want to give you money, or hire you.” We have to prove our results. We have to show things, and we have to be in the right place at the right time. Every podcast episode that you release or I release, every blog post that we write, is putting something out there that could intersect with somebody at the right time. Masterminds will definitely help you do that, and that was one of those things for me.

Zephan: Yeah, definitely. You’ve got a bestselling book—How to Start Your Professional Podcast for $200 or Less. Where does that fit in, and how has that helped you, just growing as a business owner, and bringing in new clients?

Ellory: Let me answer it maybe even a different way. My next book is specifically for entrepreneurs, the one I’m working on right now. That one, it was for podcasters, and I saw a need, and I met it. That’s what entrepreneurs do, pretty much at the very base of that, even if that’s lemonade stand, the need is, it’s hot, and people are thirsty, and here’s just some cold lemonade. To me, I saw a lot of people, and even for myself, I thought podcasting had to be expensive. I thought it had to be technical. I’m using pretty much the same setup now that I talked about in that book. These headphones wouldn’t fit into that $200 budget, but this microphone, and you can use a stand or not.

One of the barriers for me, getting into podcasting, was the assumption that it had to be expensive, and I saw other people with cool ideas and great messages, who also saw price and cost being an obstacle to get into podcasting. I wanted to remove that. To me, podcasting is less the business and more a marketing tool, and that’s why I wrote that. What has that done? It’s exposed me to, well, a couple things. The possibility that you can make passive income online, which is an incredible thing. It’s also put my message in front of people around the world. It has allowed to be on a panel last year, at Podcast Movement, and I did some speaking at this year’s, at the Friday events before, partially because of the success of that book. It doesn’t pay a whole lot of bills, but it brings in money every single month.

All of those things just go to show you that someone who had never bought a domain before, never heard of the word “WordPress” four years ago can now be doing what I’m doing now, and that was one of those pivotal moments for me, of “This is possible. I can write a book. I can sell it around the world. I can learn about distribution. I can learn about the Kindle. I can learn about self-publishing.” There’s all kinds of knowledge out there, and if you apply it in the right ways, your reality changes. Your perspective is open, the possibilities just become crazy. I don’t want to say it all started from that book, but it didn’t hurt. It did not hurt.

Zephan: To back up everything you’re saying here, I started a program that has coached me through writing a book. I’ve been very interested in doing that, and always had a bunch of ideas up here, and wasn’t really sure how to get it out, and how to best spread it. A, I hired a coach, and I have an accountability person, so it’s like a very small mastermind; it’s just myself and one other person, but within the last month alone, I, someone who hates writing but is totally cool with talking or typing, have created thirty-five thousand words in a cohesive story. It’s not just I just spread out a bunch of stuff and it’s going to be in a book.

I’m hopefully going to be publishing it this winter, and it’s almost done. The first draft is pretty much set to go, so I can vouch for the whole you can really learn and master something in a very short period of time, in the day and age that we live in now, and make a living off of it. I haven’t sold it yet, so I can’t tell you how much money I’ll make off of it, but I dare to say that it’ll probably be worth the time that I put in, over the course of this past month.

Ellory: Yeah. Thirty-five thousand words. It’s probably like a hundred thirty pages of stuff, of material. Proving to yourself that you can do it, proving to the people that are following you, your friends and family members, wife or girlfriend that wouldn’t even go into the home office, and you lock yourself away for three or four hours, that there is fruit to your labor. There is a reason. There is a result of that. That’s pretty awesome. Congratulations, and good luck. Can you share of what the book’s about, or is it under wraps?

Zephan: Yeah. No, so by the time this goes out, actually, we will have some stuff online and available for people to check out. Basically, it’s called Life Rescripted, and so the whole story came out of me looking at the last year of my life, and so many people were like “What changed for you? What was it that just”—things just exploded for me. My business was on fire, I started the podcast, thousands of people started listening, many great successes just with clients and things like that. I did a video in a partnership with Uber, the car company, the ride sharing company, along with one of my clients who is a business coach, so I got to make a video that combined this really cool thing that they did together. I’ve just had a lot of amazing opportunities come up.

When I sat down and broke it down to its core of “What is it that I did to make the difference in my life?” I took my roots from being a filmmaker and said “All right. Well, there’s a story, and it all starts with the story.” You have to realize that you have the ability to change it. You are the director. You are the writer. You are the producer. You’re the editor, and you’re also the casting manager. You pick and choose, just like you said, the five people that you’re going to surround yourself with. The whole book is actually written in the layout of what it would be like to walk into a movie theater.

The whole process of, you get your tickets, you’ve got to pick out what type of genre you want your story to be. You go to the concessions stand, and you have to choose, what items do you want to enhance the story, or the experience? Do you want to get nachos and a giant soda, and have to go to the bathroom in the middle of it, or do you want a thing of M&Ms or gummy bears, that you can sit there and work your way through for the rest of the movie?

Ellory: Twizzlers.

Zephan: Yeah. There you go. I’d probably kill of the Twizzlers before the previews are done, though.

Ellory: Those things are good.

Zephan: Yeah. That’s the book, and for everyone listening in right now, if you head on over to liferecriptedbook.com, that’s where you can get a little heads up. Just put in your email, and we’ll let you know as soon that’s all ready, and we’ll get you a copy of it. Curious to hear, what’s the topic on that your book’s going to be, for the next one?

Ellory: One thing that I have learned is to be specific. Like, you probably have an avatar. Who is my avatar? My avatar is really a busy professional, someone who is working 40 to 60 hours a week. They’ve got some disposable income, but they work for five to trade for two, if you’ve read The Millionaire Fastlane by M.J. DeMarco, trading five for two is a big thing for him. That’s my avatar, the people who are working too much so that they can escape on the weekends, saving their vacation. Like me, we had to go out of the country, so my phone and my computer wouldn’t work, or else I would be working, because I was spending all my extra time blogging, and podcasting.

That’s the avatar, and the book is called Exit Strategy: How to Transition from Where You Have to Be to Where You Want to Be. Working on the tagline part, but I’m only about twenty-five thousand words in. I’m not quite done yet. It was, what do people need to know, so that they can develop this exit strategy? What’s the overall strategy? What are the specific tactics? For me, a lot of that has to do with building relationships, and building influence through blogging and podcasting, social media, and some of those kinds of things, so that people can make this transition from the day job to, to borrow the phrase from Kary Oberbrunner, “from day job to dream job.” To build that ramp, to make that gradual transition so that you can have this separation from job on your terms, instead of like me, where that choice wasn’t made by me.

There’s a lot of my story in there, because I really want people to know that if I did it, anything that I’ve done, people can do the exact same thing, because I was completely ignorant, and I was relatively average. I didn’t know anything about this stuff, and now I do. Now I teach it, and coach it. Part of it’s story, and then part of it’s “Okay, here’s what you need to do. Here’s why people say the money is in the list. Here’s why people blog, and things that they talk about.” It’s most strategy, overall, and then the tactics that people can do on a day-to-day or week-to-week basis to build that influence, build that online business. Why online is key. Why blogging is so important. Why podcasting, or doing videos are so important. Again, so people can formulate their own exit strategy.

Zephan: Very nice, and I’m sure there’s a lot of people that are tuning in right now, that would be interested in that. What is the best way for people to keep track of you, and see where you are, and maybe get a little hint as to when that book’s going to be coming out?

Ellory: Sure. I haven’t been to the URL, I haven’t shared it yet, outside of my mastermind. I think it is, one sec. I don’t want to say the wrong thing.

Zephan: Yeah. No problem.

Ellory: If I can spell. [pause] It’s loading.

Zephan: [inaudible 34:39] with that.

Ellory: While we’re waiting on the book page… Okay, there we go. Yeah. Go to theexitstrategybook.com.

Zephan: Awesome.

Ellory: theexitstrategybook.com. You’d be surprised how popular of a phrase “exit strategy” is. There aren’t a whole lot of books, like on Amazon or whatever, but yeah. There’s a lot of domains with “exit strategy something” in there. If you go to theexitstrategybook.com, I will eventually want to do kind of a behind-the-scenes about the book, exclusive updates. It’ll maybe eventually have its own site and page, but everything else and that will also route to ellorywells.com, and if that busy entrepreneur is you, I provide tips, tools, tricks, resources, tests and results, that you can implement to help you start, build, or grow your business. If you do go, by the way—and I just remembered this when the page pulled up. If you do go to theexitstrategybook.com, the picture that loads… It won’t load probably on a phone, may not on a tablet, but if you go on a computer, that’s a picture that I took from the sales floor that I used to work in.

I don’t know what time of day it was. It was probably about 9:30 in the morning. Not everybody had made it in that day, but we’re in there. It’s like the boiler room or some other stereotypical sales thing. If you’ve ever watched The Wolf of Wall Street. Is that really what Wall Street looks like? This is literally me, taken on my phone, of the sales floor that I used to work in. It’s cubicle nation to the extreme, and we actually were put into pods. We didn’t even have four walls anymore—or three walls anymore. We shared walls, and there were little waist-high walls—It’s super fun, Zephan, but that’s the actual picture of the last place that I worked. I did not like it. The floor swayed.

Zephan: …What?

Ellory: If you notice, there’s not a whole lot of support, so I guess there’s huge steel beams or something. I don’t know how it’s constructed. The floor would sway. I had a mirror above my monitor, and it would shake.

Zephan: Oh, gosh.

Ellory: I guess big doors were slamming. The warehouse below, or something. I don’t know, but it was not a fun experience.

Zephan: I’m glad that you got to get out of there, and that things have definitely gotten way better since then. Ellory, it’s been great chatting with you today, and definitely look forward to having that book come out.

Ellory: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Zephan. If anybody has any questions, feel free to send them my way. If I can help anybody, I would absolutely love to make sure nobody has to go to where they don’t enjoy it anymore, so that’s what I’m here to do. Again, thanks for having me.