Bio: We are bryan and jen and karma, the wonderdog.
We started www.thedangerz.com a few years ago to keep in touch with those we love but don’t see often enough, and we keep it up to give us something to look back at over the years and remember our journeys. These days it mostly survives only so we have a photo album readily available to look back at the blur that has been our lives over the last few years.
Our journey began in E, our 1967 VW bus as we drove slowly through Mexico and Central america for a year. We tried to find ourselves by getting lost and hoped to see life through a lens that just wasn’t possible in the day to day grind. We didn’t know what to expect or where we would end up, but assumed it would be on a small beach somewhere warm.
Instead we found ourselves returning to and creating a “home base” in Portand, OR that can serve as a jumping off point for our travels and a place for us to call home near those we love. We converted our garage into a tiny home/adu for us to live in while someone else pays our mortgage and we make decisions based upon happiness rather than money.
We are living an unconventional and fairly nomadic lifestyle and trying to see if/prove that its possible to survive off almost nothing but enjoy life fully…even in the middle of an urban environment. So far we’re doing just that thanks to our “creative home use plan”…
We are also offering small space design services to others looking to simplify, downsize or change their life for the better and in hopes that we can bring both our and their financial freedoms even closer. If you have a project we can help with or a dream you want to chase…let us know how we can help!
We honestly cant tell you why the name came about, but we have several friends who started calling us the Dangers years ago, and at some point it just stuck. It’s okay with us as we’ve grown to quite like it. It’s also funny, since we see ourselves as anything BUT dangerous. We’re soft and silly mostly (albeit, not quite “normal”), but we do like the name. It’s rather like the tattoo jen wants… mostly all about floating hearts and likely all in pink, but every time we sketch it out at least one of the hearts ends up with crossbones. Just because its cute, but also a little badass.
We still often discuss legally enacting the name change…stay tuned.
We hope you enjoy our stories, we welcome your comments, advice and ideas,
and we look forward to meeting you (or seeing you again) along the way!
bryan and jen (and karma)
Check out their website at www.thedangerz.com
Zephan: Today I’m hanging out with Bryan and Jen Danger. These are the Dangers. They quit their jobs and left normal society to drive their ’67 Volkswagen bus through Mexico and Central America. They thought that they probably end up living on a beach and never coming back. They almost did. As it turns out, they realized that their home in Portland where their tribe is, was just as important to them as traveling. They spent the last few years creating a home based in Portland and trying to ensure that they never again have to take jobs that they dislike. Thank you guys so much for being here today. You know what, I think disliking your job is a very common denominator between many of our listeners right now; a lot of people just today alone. Thanks for being here Bryan and Jen.
Jen: Yes, absolutely.
Bryan: Yeah. Our pleasure.
Jen: Zephan, when we meet people who say I love my job; it just fills us with joy because you don’t hear that very often. We always tell them like that is really awesome to hear.
Zephan: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the job if it suits you, right? So many people have jobs that they absolutely hate and it’s just for the money. There’s no other real reason to be there other than getting a paycheck. If you love your job, then totally stick with it. Don’t take our advice and just go quit.
Jen: Appreciate that you have found that for yourself because it is rare.
Zephan: Totally. What types of jobs were you guys working before all this went down? Where were you in life and what kind of led to this decision to leave?
Bryan: We’re both working pretty kind of corporate North America jobs. Jobs that I think the average person would say we should have been pretty happy to have.
Bryan: We’re working 68 hours a week on their fluorescent lights. I was traveling a ton for work, but not the type of travel that you can get excited about, more like a new state every day, new rental car, new hotel just kind of seeing the same old thing. Jen wasn’t able to join me for it. We tried everything to try and make it fit to just kind of say, gosh there’s got to be a way we can just do this like “normal people.” It never fit. We couldn’t kind of force ourselves; square peg, round hole I guess.
Zephan: Definitely. When you say corporate, did you guys have a background in one particular area? Has any of that like carried over to where you guys are now? Is that kind of like a totally different story of the past?
Bryan: No. It’s almost like a completely second life, or third life, or fourth life.
Jen: I worked for different sporting good companies and different outdoor brands. I worked on the product team but in numbers. I was crunching numbers and forecasting future sales and things like that. Bryan was in a consulting firm. Their main focus was education. We had great jobs. They just didn’t suit us because we were thinking there’s got to be more to our everyday existence.
Zephan: Definitely. Did you guys ever have experiences before then? Where you had really gotten to travel or see what else is out there? Was this really kind of the first time where you were like this is our chance to go see the world?
Bryan: We certainly tried to take the most opportunity we could from our 2 weeks of vacation a year.
Jen: We optimized it.
Bryan: We would optimize. We go try and scuba dive, hit the islands, take a trip to Thailand. Jen was able to meet for, I don’t know, one or 2 international trips over a course of 14 years. It’s not like we didn’t the world was out there. It just seemed like we were so far removed from it.
Jen: Every time we traveled, it was for 10 days to 2 weeks. Once you get like 3 quarters of the way through that vacation, you already start thinking about your jobs and your to do list. It just never felt like it was long enough, or that we were able to release enough from that daily life.
Zephan: I know that feeling of wanting a break or wishing you’re on the beach, especially I’m on the East Coast right now. This time of year, it gets very snowy, and cold, and rainy. I would kill to be in a hammock with a nice glass of something. I definitely get that feeling. That was something that was huge for me too in leaving my job behind. When you guys made this decision, who was the first person to come home and say “All right. We got to do this.”
Bryan: Jen for sure. She gets upset often the way I described this. I think for the better part of a decade she was kind of pulling and tugging, and saying “Let’s just drop it all and leave.” I just thought that was crazy hippie talk. There’s a reason we’re working. What about our 401(k) and our retirement? All these thing that obviously we spent our life trying to do. It took me a long time. She has no fear in the world about this type of thing. I couldn’t let go of the normalcy and the fear. My kind of consolation was “Let’s not leave today but let’s spend the next few years downsizing and purging, and downsizing more, and saving money. At least make sure we have enough of a travel fund to be gone for a while. Also that we could come back and have padding if we had to go back and find another job.” Coming back wasn’t suddenly more stressful than before we left.
Zephan: I’m sure you found that you really didn’t need that safety net once you guys went out because it seems like things have really changed for the better. That you haven’t had to go back to that style of job.
Bryan: No, far from it.
Zephan: Bryan is still surprised every day because when we left he just really thought that after a year or two, we would go back, and life as before would continue.
Bryan: Quite the contrary.
Jen: Quite the contrary. I always felt like “Let’s go take a year or 2 and mix it up, and be wild and crazy, and do something completely different. Maybe we will choose that lifestyle again. Maybe we want to go back to a company where we’re trying to really help optimize their sales and bring success to them. That would bring us joy, and be a part of that normal society path.
Bryan: That hasn’t happened.
Jen: That hasn’t happened; the opposite. In fact, Bryan sometimes says “Oh no, we’re broken because now we can never go back to normalcy.”
Zephan: That’s kind of like when I went on my first cruise ever. We went on at the time what was the largest cruise ship. We went to this comedy show one night and he’s like “Who here it’s your first time on the cruise.” Of course we raised our hands and he turns to us and he’s like “This is it. You can’t go on any other cruises now.” Yeah, definitely. Since Bryan wasn’t the first to say “All right, we’ve got to do this.” Where was the turning point for you Bryan where it was like “All right, I’ve had enough. We’ve been prepping for this long enough. It’s time to do this.”
Bryan: I think the first thing that brought me over to the dark side, the light side I guess, I don’t know. I just had a routine checkup after work one day and walked in to the doctor. He literally was like “Anybody ever tell you, you might have high blood pressure? Obviously, we have to do some more test to be sure. It pretty much seems like you should be on medication right now.”
Jen: You’re in your early 30s.
Bryan: Yeah, early 30s. My eyes just kind of roll back in my head. I got real quiet and went home, and was just like “Okay. I’m in.” At that point is when we kind of said “Okay, what would it take? Let’s look at some blogs and see kind of how much people spend when they’re on the road. How much we’ve had to save for a couple of years?” It’s still important for me to have that foundation of a security blanket. I was pretty committed. I mean, don’t get me wrong. This was right around the housing crash. We had moments of terror where we kind of aborted and postponed, and then came back at it, and things like that. It still wasn’t an easy thing. I think every day after that appointment, I was committed to making it work.
Jen: I remember also we had 2 really good friends who while we’re still working but thinking about leaving that behind, we had 2 really good friends who lost their jobs. That really spoke to us too like “Are we being careless? Should we be more appreciative to have the work?” Really, when it came down to like checking in with ourselves and listening to our hearts, we had to just keep moving forward and follow those voices.
Zephan: That’s cool. You had mentioned a little bit about how your concerns for a 401(k) and retirement, and savings, and things like that. I guess my question is, I’m 26, many of the people in my age group are very concerned with this. They’re just a few years removed from college. They’re going off of this idea that their parents set them up with for. You have to get a good job. You have to save up all your money and build this retirement, and buy a stock portfolio. What do you guys have to say just as far as anyone who’s kind of stuck in that mentality of “We have to do this the way that everyone has done it in the past.”
Bryan: Doesn’t do you any good if you’re not here to enjoy it, I guess. I come from a family that had all of those same underlying premises. I very clearly remember every single month, every single year listening to my parents talk about how when they retire, they’re going to move in to their camper and travel the world. They’re going to travel at least the States and drive around and see everything. They’ve now been retired for I don’t know, 15 years. They’ve yet to take more than a trip a state away, because things come up. It’s difficult to do. At least for me, it’s always kind of an ever present like now’s the time. Quite honestly in all reality, believe that if I was still working in that job I would have at least had my first heart attack by now, if not subsequent heart attacks by now. The stress was just that high. It’s fair to think about that other side.
It’s also fair to say that since we left, it’s eye opening to me that opportunities create themselves if you’re able to look for them, and see them, and take advantage of them. When we were working our jobs, I don’t doubt that opportunities were going by us all the time. We were exhausted. We just didn’t have kind of the ability to reach out and grab them. I recently referred to this, this feeling before like we are walking through a dark forest with a really dim flashlight. Everything was horrifying because we couldn’t see a few steps in front of us. If you keep going and you kind of trust that it’s going to work out, every step you take, you got to go farther along, your eyes adjust to the darkness a little bit. Your flashlight suddenly seems stronger than it did before. You keep seeing new paths ahead of you. Now I sound like I’m the hippie instead of Jen.
It’s just weird how things begin to open up for you. The further you get away from what you just always known had to be true. We don’t have all the answers. We don’t have figured it out. I’m drinking the Kool-Aid now. I believe that this is actually possible. That there are paths out there. We’re still figuring out the nuances, but we’re so impossibly happy that there’s no way I would try and pull us back the other way.
Zephan: One of the quotes that I always say and this is obviously from someone else, but it was “You don’t know what you don’t know.” The fact that you were able to jump in to this experience with that sort of flashlight mentality, I have to take another step for the flashlight to reach a little farther. I think that’s a great way to dive in anything.
Bryan: Didn’t know that at the time, let’s be clear. In hindsight, it seems more clear every day.
Zephan: It’s one of those things that you can never tell looking into the future what it’s going to look like. You just kind of have to keep moving towards it. What was the reasoning behind? You guys got a VW bus, what was the reasoning behind that? Maybe just kind of share a little bit about like how long ago that original trip kind of started and where that took you guys?
Bryan: We left our jobs in 2012. We had started outfitting the van, I don’t know, a year or 2 before that. We kind of just, we’re going to go live on the road. We need a vehicle. We need something we can sleep in. Our car didn’t allow that. We started looking at taco trucks that would blend in. Box trucks that we could put some delivery name on the side up. We looked everything. The more I kind of read about, the more I kept stumbling upon this thing that in Mexico and Central America, the old school Vdub bus with none of the technology can be fixed by anybody. It’s an easy way to make sure you can stay on the road. Then we went into it at Westfalia. We looked at a few different Vdubs. Then we made the mistake of climbing into a split window. The visual kind of artist in me just fell in love with it. I think from the second we saw one, there was never going to be another choice.
We finally found one that was a descent price. We outfitted the inside as a camper. It actually was the perfect vehicle for that road trip. I don’t know if it’s necessarily because of what I thought is that it would be on the road all the time, because I think we broke down every 3 days on average. It also helps. It set its own schedule. We couldn’t decide to be somewhere on a certain day. We couldn’t keep a certain pace. We couldn’t even keep up with other travelers. Somehow, I don’t know. It helped us removed. Those first few months, I don’t think we’ll ever forget those first few months in Baja. We left an odd time of the year. There literally were no other travelers. There’s nobody that spoke English, hottest places which is why there was nobody there.
Our vehicle kept breaking down every few days. Somehow just sitting on a beach until we had enough things fixed to move to the next beach, it just allowed us to kind of decompress and realized that we were in a different place, and kind of start to open our eyes and embrace that newness as opposed to—I think it took a good couple of months before we finally realized we didn’t have a call that we had to be on the next day.
Jen: After years and years of deadlines, and structure, and routine, and racing around trying to be on time for everything, and juggling all of that, it was really opposite to be driving a Volkswagen bus that you just never had any idea when it was going to break down. You’re in the middle of nowhere. You don’t speak fluently the language. We knew a little bit. But we learned to just roll with it. That made a big difference in our psyches.
Bryan: It was huge.
Zephan: It’s got to be so different from here. My first thought, if my car breaks down is call triple A, right? Get somebody here right away, pull the phone out, figure this out, and get me out of here. Now, I don’t necessarily have beaches as close to me on the East Coast right now where I’m at. If I broke down, I’d probably want to be able to say “We’ll we’re on the beach. Let’s make a fire and hang out for a little bit.”
Jen: We were always like “Okay. Before we took off for a drive, do we have water? Do we have dog food? Do we have food for ourselves, and do we have tequila? Okay. We’re good to go.” Because if we break down, we have all the necessities.
Zephan: That’s awesome. You’re living in relatively close quarters. You probably learned way more about repairing vehicles than you ever expected. What were maybe, do you have any tips or advice just for living in a such small space? I have a townhouse right now. I’ve got some roommates. There’s a lot of space here. A lot of stuff. I definitely couldn’t pack everything I have in my house into my car right now, despite having an SUV. What have you guys learned just from having a small space. I’m sure you downsize before you left, but you probably ditched a bunch of things on the road too that you didn’t need?
Bryan: No. I think the underlying tip is get rid of it, like all of it. If anything now, we’ve become like experts at minimal and small living. Even now that we’re back, the place that we converted into our “perfect home” basically a home base when we’re not traveling is 480 square feet. It feels like a mansion to us. We recently did another project that’s just over 200 square feet and it still feels great. Compared to the van, it’s enormous.
Zephan: The 60-square-foot van.
Bryan: We’re now embarking upon another camper and it seems huge. It’s all relative. In much the same way that a lifestyle is different than another, the amount of things and the amount of space that you live in is all relative. We used to live in a five plus bedroom house. Every bedroom and the attic, and the basement, and the garage was slap full. We couldn’t put anything else in it. We honestly, we call that our forever house. We’re going to live there forever. It all started with one move away. We’re trying to kind of move. We moved out of state and we’re trying to mix things up. By the time we came back, it just seems ridiculous. We had no desire to live in anything that big ever again. A few moves later and a few purges later, it’s really kind of funny. We now share with our clients that it’s like the Sleep Number Bed except for some per square footage. Everybody has their number. There’s a certain size space that’s kind of perfect for you. For most people it’s far smaller than kind of what society has pushed us towards living in.
Zephan: I could definitely see that. I almost missed the days of—when I was in college, I was even at a point where with my apartment there, I could have packed everything into my car within an hour, and had everything I needed. Minus like my mattress probably wouldn’t fit in the car, but I had a sleeping bag. That and everything else, I could squeeze into the car. I definitely missed that. I think that’s one of the things that I love about traveling so much. I just have my one bag with my stuff in it and that’s it.
Jen: There’s a real freedom with that.
Bryan: It also takes a very concerted effort and decision.
Bryan: For us, that decision was to collect experiences rather than stuff.
Zephan: Right. That’s not something where you just say I’m going to go sleep tonight. Tomorrow I’ll wake up ready to do that.
Bryan: Now, there’s a system for sure. For us, the system was kind of like—it changed over time. The more comfortable you get, the easier it becomes to just push things to the curb. In the beginning, we would pack bins with stuff that was questionable and put it away. If we didn’t need it, or touch it for a month or 2, then we just had a rule that it just went. It would get pushed out to the curb and be—a free sign put on it, or it goes straight to goodwill because if you open that bin, you’re going to pull something back out. There’s always that knee-jerk reaction “Oh, I’m going to need that later.” If you can put away for a while and you don’t need it, chances are you actually don’t need it.
Jen: Somebody else does.
Bryan: Somebody else might.
Zephan: I could go and help somebody else out. What’s been the plan since you guys got—how long have you guys been home and what have you guys been up to since you got home?
Bryan: Gosh, we’re three and a half years without jobs at this point; just amazing.
Jen: Our trip is about a year. We came back to Portland in June of 2013.
Bryan: We thought that was just a quick trip. We were still loving life on the road, but things were less impactful and uninspiring than they were before. It was time for to change things up. Then we Skyped with very dear friends of ours who had had a child while we were gone. We met him over Skype. We both broke into tears afterwards. We’re like “Okay. It’s time to go home and see friends.”
Jen: Let’s go visit.
Bryan: We came back and thought it was just a quick trip. We actually left the Volkswagen in Costa Rica, flew home. Then kind of darted around from friend’s room, to friend’s basement, to renting an apartment. It slowly became apparent that we were going to stay here longer. We still had our house. It had been rented the whole time we were gone, but the lease was coming due. We were like “Okay, are we willing to bite the bullet and move back into the 3-bedroom house?” We hated the idea of taking roommates. We didn’t have enough stuff to fill 3 bedrooms.
Jen: We didn’t want to pay the full mortgage.
Bryan: We certainly don’t want to pay the mortgage.
Jen: That would require jobs.
Bryan: We finally realized that there was this garage that was sitting unused. We converted the garage into our house so that we could continue renting the house.
Zephan: That’s awesome.
Bryan: It immediately changed everything in terms of our trajectory because that allowed us to continue having the mortgage paid, to live essentially free month to month except for what it takes us for us to eat and drink, and now of course to travel. Again, it’s just very funny. This is the flashlight story. Never could have seen it, but once you’re in that spot, all you have to find is enough to eat and drink. Suddenly it takes all the pressure off of finding the perfect job. It takes all the pressure off of how hard you have to work. It gave me at least to kind of create the freedom to say “Wow! What do I want to do? Do I want to do anything? It’s okay if I try something and fail. It’s okay if I try something and barely make any money on it at all because barely any money is all we need.”
Zephan: It’s kind of like the world is your canvass now. You’ve got as many paintbrushes and colors to paint as you want.
Jen: One thing, it’s obvious now that was a big learning was when we were working we had all this money, but we didn’t have any freedom. We don’t have any time. We couldn’t go and travel a bunch. Then phase 2, we find ourselves with all this time but not a ton of money. That’s where we are right now. We’re trying to solve that, find that perfect balance. We want to keep our freedom and time. We want to keep our schedules flexible. We also want to have a little bit more money so that we can go to any exotic vacations that our friends like throw out like go scuba diving, go to the most like pristine beaches of the world.
Bryan: I know a lot of people solved that. I’m sure if you interview travelers all the time, the common story we hear is “Okay. We’re going to go home and work for 2 years. Save a lot of money and then we’re going to take off and travel for a year or 2.” Which is a great response. It just, again I think we’re broken. The idea of going back and working for 2 years sounds just as horrible as going back and working for 20 more years. We’re hanging on to this idea that there is a gray zone in the middle ground where we can actually find a balance of both.
Zephan: Are you guys, obviously you’re in the garage that’s next to the house currently? Does that make money or is that kind of like a break even type thing?
Bryan: A funny thing happened after we moved in. Again, the idea was just to let somebody else pay the mortgage. Then obviously we had to find a way to pay off the construction cost of it because we spent the remainder of our travel funds on the construction cost.
Jen: On renovation.
Bryan: One of our neighbors actually recommended. We still had to go back and get our bus back from Costa Rica. Last winter, one of our neighbors recommended that we put it on Airbnb while we travel. It was like another light went on. We had never considered that someone might want to pay money to stay in our place. If anything we thought, we were going to have to pay someone to watch it. When we took off for Costa Rica, we actually had several people stay in our place and essentially funded the flight and some of the gas on the way back.
Zephan: It’s awesome.
Bryan: Over the course of the last year as we’ve been trying to further, and further this idea of living this way, we’ve been Airbnb-ing different portions throughout the year. Last summer, we would put it on Airbnb for a month. Somebody would book a week, and then we’d close out the other three weeks. That would be the week we would go backpack and see the northwest.
Jen: That was fun because we would look at each other and say “So, where do you want to go during that week? Do you want to go to Vancouver, BC? Do you want to go backpacking? Do you want to go wine country? Where should we go?
Bryan: Hit the coast and surf.
Bryan: Again, we’ve find ourselves “back home” for now. Almost more nomadic than we were when we were on the road, because we’re kind of at other people’s whims. It’s proven to be great for us because we’ve lived in the northwest for a long time. Every year, we feel like we didn’t take advantage of it. We didn’t see enough of it. We didn’t explore and backpack enough of it. The year since we’ve been back from our trip where we actually feel like we’re doing those things.
Zephan: That’s awesome. You guys, this is such a cool story. It kind of makes me want to go like renovate my garage because we have a garage in the townhouse and just Airbnb out the house. I think my three roommates would be a little upset about that.
Bryan: That happens. It’s funny because Portland is kind of leading the charge on a movement that seems to be evolving in kind of tiny housing whether it be wood, or 180-square-foot houses on wheels, or whether it be accessory dwelling units which is formally what our garage is now called. It’s really interesting to see the number of people that are gravitating towards this movement while others are still building larger and larger homes to collect more and more stuff.
Zephan: I have lots some pretty cool documentaries on it. We’re not talking you’re just living in a box. There are some very nice, tiny homes out there and very accommodating to the comforts that some people still like to retain.
Bryan: Absolutely. We wake every morning feeling like we’re in a spa. Our garage, everybody seems to have this vision of living in a damp, cold, space. After the renovation we did, honestly we wake up feeling like we’re in a resort somewhere.
Jen: The beauty is that you design the space to be your perfect home. What are all the things you want to accomplish in it? Do you want to be able to have 20 people over for a party? Do you want to be able to have 10 people for dinner? Even if it’s 300, 400 square feet, there’s creative solutions to be able to have everything you want. You don’t have to deprive yourself with anything.
Zephan: That’s great. To look forward into the future, just having been on this awesome journey and been home for a little while to see friends, what do you guys see just to round everything off for the future?
Jen: Good question.
Bryan: If there’s one thing that we’ve realized we’re really poor at, it’s planning. It’s hard for us to say where we’re going to be in a week, much less a month, or a few years. The trajectory seems right. Again, at this point I think it’s all about balance. I feel like we’re kind of living that right now, but we’ve been spending maybe a lot too much time getting the projects done. It’s nice that we’re moving in to kind of our freedom point on that as well, or tethering back towards having more time instead of less, maybe able to more money instead of less. It’s an even flow. Certainly it’s never, we are not rowing in the money. Let’s be clear. We seemed to be finding ourselves with obviously enough to comfortably kind of eat, and drink, and go hang out with friends. We’re starting to talk about where we want to travel. That was the goal.
The next few years we’re definitely going to see more travel. We’re outfitting another camper right now so that we’ll be excited to hit the road a little more and not worry about breaking down as often. That’s stellar. I think the goal seems to be that if you can be as excited to get on a plane, or get in the van, and drive back home as you are to leave home for your trip, that’s a pretty good place to be.
Jen: We have a super sweet dog. Our travel for the next 3 to 5 years while she’s still part of our tribe is going to be road based because we don’t want to check her up with our friends and take off for 2 months to Asia. We’d rather drive up to Alaska and camp, or drive down to Mexico, or do some local Pacific Northwest stuff with her. That’s sort of our short term. Then longer term, we’re going to sail. I don’t know how we’re going to afford the sailboat but we are going to buy a catamaran, learn how to sail, and we’re going to scuba dive, and snorkel, and catch lobster. We’re going to do all that.
Zephan: That sounds amazing. I’m a little bit jealous. I think I’m going to have to add a few more things to my bucket list here.
Bryan: Not only do we not know how are we going to afford the sail boat, we also don’t know how to sail. There’s a lot of unknowns here.
Zephan: One recommendation I will make is I interviewed a very cool family, the Hemingways on the podcast. They actually as a family bought a catamaran and went sailing for like 2-1/2 years. I think at one point his wife, they stopped in Israel and she had a baby. Another point, their daughter got engaged to this guy she met while they were out sailing. You never know what could happen. I think they went into it with no experience whatsoever. It’s pretty neat. Thank you guys so much for joining me here today. Is there any sort of like last words or just advice on go out to experience the world, and may be like a website to check out what you guys are doing and keep up with everything?
Bryan: Sure. We still we’re not as good at it anymore. We still keep the blog that we started on our travels updated which is just the thedangerz.com with a Z. From there you can get the links to our design work and other things that we’ve been doing in the meantime. In terms of advice, I guess for us it’s the same thing Jen keep chanting to me for 10 years which was leap and the net will appear. We’ve got a quote on our wall in the garage here that’s a Mary Oliver quote. It says “Tell me what is it you plan to do with your one, wild, and precious life?” We kind of use that as a conversation starter when people come over. It’s a way to try and focus in on what’s truly important to you and how do you want to get there? Certainly if anybody wants to talk about these things, give us a ring or come on over for a happy hour. These are the conversations that light us up, that keep us going. If we all we did all day was talk about freedom, and dreams, and goals, and how to get to them, we’d be in a pretty happy place.
Jen: Sweet spot.
Zephan: Good stuff. Thank you guys so much for taking some time with me. I know that if I get up that way, I’m still missing. I haven’t been to Portland or that sort of area. I know it’s on my map for the next year. We’ll definitely have to hit you guys up.
Jen: Yup, awesome.
Bryan: Let us know when you’re coming.
Zephan: Cool. Thanks guys. I’ll talk to you soon.
Bryan: It’s been a pleasure.
Jen: Thank you.